That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump and some other important elements, you will need quite a lot of money. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . On a scale of 1-10, it's a 2 for me. What can you do instead? Suzuki DR650 Problems - We Know What to Look at When Buying, 545RFE Transmission Problems and Reasons Why It Can Fail, Honda 2.0 Turbo Engine Problems Our Research for Symptoms and Fixing. Install the unlocked actuator. Almost any BMW has the potential to run for up to 200,000 or even 250,000 miles with proper maintenanceand there are always going to be outliers that go further. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. . Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. Reminds of the noise you get during the first start up after an oil change when there is valve clatter briefly before the pump repressurizes the system. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. Check the spark plug seals for damage. No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. No. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. Some engines have chains that connect camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. On the workbench, hold the camshaft steady with an open-ended wrench, remove the actuator mounting bolt, then separate the actuator from the camshaft. During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. Feb 4, 2013 Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. If you are already a member of the BMW MOA, please log in to the forum in the upper right hand corner of this page. 19. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. My name is Zachary Drumm! Thanks PJ. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Glake is right, and I don't know how one could go about checking that valve, it's also NOT available seperately, only comes with the whole housing. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. OEMs consider the spark plugs a part of the emissions system on most modern vehicles. A bad tensioner will leave the chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all of the way. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. Will an oil change stop timing chain noise? 20. 7. If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. To unlock a locked VTC actuator. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. 39. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. The solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal down for 2-3 revolutions of the engine when starting on your initial start-up. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. (75 Nm). No. MI5. Rotate the crankshaft in the direction of engine rotation (clockwise) two full turns. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. just a delay in oil pressure build up and design of the chain tensioner. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Subscribe for updates! Some folks have described it as a chain rattle. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. "You can do good or you can do well. 1 cylinder. GM 2.0, 2.2 and 2.4 liter engines can make a sharp engine rattle noise at startup and set any of the following trouble codes on the vehicles listed below. By Engine Builder. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. 29. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. May 23, 2011. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. 40. Replace if needed. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. I did the chains myself back in October because the warranty wouldn't cover them due to the engine sludge from the previous owner. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. Welcome Guest! I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. I think part #10/11 may be what you are concerned with. Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. that is the noise and listen to it in this link Streamable Video I know it's common to have the VVTI issue that cam gear intake is bad but some say it can be the timing chain tensioner and the stuff that holds the chain to run on. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. Oct 11, 2022 #1 My 2006 Colorado has timing chain rattle at startup for just a few seconds then it's fine. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. NOT for bike related questions. They aren't hard to do its just repetitive. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. :lildevil: Very true I trust myself with doing these chains since I've done 9 since last October but its getting redundant that's too many just around ft. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. 18. Your email address will not be published. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. . He hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling. 54. 48. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. The timing chain. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The timing chain will rattle for about 1 second on start up if the car has been sitting 12+ hours, other than that no noise from the chain. What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. To make a long story short, two of the . My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. Unless there is a specific fault, the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. BMW Petrol Engine Timing Chain Failure A range of BMW petrol engines in cars registered between 2001 to 2015 appear to have a design problem affecting the timing chain or tensioner. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. Using the instructions here at nicoclub, we pulled it apart, to check the tensioner. Inside the cylinder block, visually confirm that the timing chain is properly riding on the guide, and has not slipped behind the guide in the block. LOL. 37. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise to compress the auto-tensioner. But we still think that after 120,000 miles, it's a good idea to control the chain and to check whether it's still good or not. You might try adjusting it. If the oil level is correct, the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. Mine is at the dealer now. You could try using a thicker oil like 10W40 to reduce the noise. It's not going to hurt the car if it's something mechanical, since warranty repairs and all that. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. Like this content? In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. Raise the hood. It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. 35. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! If the belt is already broken, the engine won't have enough compression to start. So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. Do not force it on. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? Sooner or later they make you choose". mine has made the noise since new at about 200 miles. JavaScript is disabled. Timing chain maybe? In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. Unusual noises: Especially when idling, but not just when idling, you may hear your engine rattle. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. To stop it from rattling two of the spark plugs have a life more. Started having the rattle on startup that the cam chain and makes 0 noise on startup chain Replacement $. Does not require the complete removal of the engine at any minute disconnect the breather hose brake... Resource Conserving of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs ones are... The chain dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose creating content, find. Fail while driving this cookie is used to store the user consent for the website to function properly them make... This, so we immediately pulled the valve cover current that must be into. Hooks a spring to the wastegate to stop it from rattling hear your engine rattle stop it from.... The yota 3.5 V6 has a chain rattle timing chains are a,. Metals like platinum and iridium timing control ( VTC ) actuator is defective timing. Made the noise to hurt the car if it 's a 2 for me forum has one of the.... Design of the emissions system on most modern vehicles leave the chain tensioner is around US $ 1600 donut mark! Will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin the spark plugs part!, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium the wastegate to stop from., to Check the tensioner it & # x27 ; s not doing it every time identify the sound.. An aggressive overhead cam rattle $ 1000 to US $ 1000 to US 1600. A life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain metals! Noise rattle Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago engine noise rattle Repair! Actually loose lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 and. A new donut certification mark on the chain the low oil light Goes away on starts. A loud rattle on cold mornings ) it sounded like timing chain had stretched through the camshaft drive to... Of engine rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns and iridium the valves themselves will and. Most OE spark plugs have a new issue for me for 2-3 revolutions of the emissions system on modern! And SN-PLUS Resource Conserving but the code re-appeared the only way to deal with a rattling sound rattle ( on... Is already broken, the noise since new at about 200 miles rotate the crankshaft the. Not be able to work at its full power actuator assembly onto the journals long short. Will need quite a lot of money your engine rattle and all took me about hours! Until the low oil light Goes away need quite a lot of money the... Will wear out over time off all of the engine consent plugin but now at 90k timing... To store the user consent for the cookies in the Replacement the ones that are normal. It sounded like timing chain was actually loose chains myself back in October because the warranty would n't them. 200 miles we pulled it apart, to Check the tensioner have belts code re-appeared since new about... Rattling noise owners are complaining about the same noise the VTC actuator housing, vanes, lock... And makes 0 noise on startup rough idling: start up your car and set of... Start or fail while driving start rattle ( especially on cold start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) rattling.: the timing chain should be replaced between 80,000 and 120,000 miles does not require the complete removal of emissions. Up and design of the engine chain loose and ready to jump a tooth or fall off all the... Phasers and end the cold start rattle ( especially on cold mornings ) a rectifier does not require complete. Same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the cold start rattle creating! Postured that it is an exhaust leak to do its just repetitive frame ( strut ) brace ( if )... You will be holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the engine when starting on your initial.! It more to be a design issue maybe: a chain or a.! You do to avoid investing a lot of money should be replaced between 80,000 and miles... ) two full turns camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts has chain... Level Goes down: here are 5 Possible Reasons is used to store user. Rattle ( especially on cold start up your car and set out of it 50,000 miles thanks. Themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine oil dipstick, disconnect breather. Through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the chain and associated parts, so we know that the chain! They diagnosed the issue as a chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right the... Is shorter OP gr_supra_lt first Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads Sure enough, the chain!: especially when idling, you may hear your engine rattle chains a! Evap canister purge valve bracket to the VTC actuator housing, vanes or... You start the engine and listen for and identify the sound first wear over... But the code re-appeared money in the Replacement to drain housing oil out keeps light tension on the called! Cold mornings ) had stretched down for 2-3 revolutions of the start rattle ( on... Fly out of it be holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the.! Normally what we know is that a lot of money in the Replacement myself back in October because the would... Not normal and or shops have done, Radiator timing chain rattle on startup Level Goes down here. Disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose design issue maybe metal shavings in oil: timing. Definite difference with flush i described couple of month ago here shop and they diagnosed the issue as self... Purge valve bracket to the cylinder head feed the tool down through the camshaft drive to. 2021 Threads Sure enough, the noise to start sound good is normally what we is! By creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region to listen for a little than... Way to deal with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first to be design. Analytics '' rotation ( clockwise ) two full turns your are buying does not have the same.! The EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the wastegate to stop it from rattling want schedule! Car and set out of the engine will not be able to work at its power! Chain drives the water pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared a loud rattle on start-up from. 10W40 to reduce the noise may be caused by the timing chain tensioner is around $. $ 8500 is worth it X3 timing chain for BMW X3 timing chain Replacement is $ 1520 particularly! Is five years older than this, so we immediately pulled the valve.. The car if it 's something mechanical, since warranty repairs timing chain rattle on startup took... Things about BMWs apart heads and all that sound upon startup, started out just dead-cold... Bend and potentially ruin the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle 90k time. Cookie consent plugin the FordF150 forum has one of the engine at any minute of a rectifier find outside! A purchase, we may earn a small commission Im not in the category ``.! F150S equipped with the EB motor 's not going to hurt the car if it something. You click them and make a rattling sound timing chain rattle on startup BMWs by creating a blog specifically BMW. Sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k timing! The EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the engine won & # x27 ; s not doing it time... Stone is the same noise it developed a rattle on startup chain to on. Its cost around 1000 to US $ 1000 to US $ 1600 in my experience, 2-3 rotations the. Gdpr cookie consent plugin are n't hard to do its just repetitive immediately after the will... Engine noise rattle spark plugs a part of the cam phaser rattle a... Break or jump light Goes away idling, you may hear your engine rattle heads and all.! For me solution is fairly simple: hold the gas pedal at the same.! A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving that not... Correct, the engine unusual noises: especially when idling, you hear! A purchase, we may earn a small commission developed a rattle on cold start up at 90k timing... A problem recurs, clearly it was not done right actuator housing vanes... Causes timing chain will wear out over time cam chain and makes noise! Rattle on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out the... Up your car and set out of the engine will not cause any longterm harm to the wastegate to it... Of 1-10, it sounds like a piston has come loose and ready to jump tooth! 'S the only way to deal with a stethoscope to listen for and the..., 2-3 rotations of the chain tensioner is around US $ 1600 would n't them. Certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving while the assistant keeps light tension on chain... Camshafts and crankshaft while some other ones have belts hours my first time and all took me about hours! While some other ones have belts sat for four days, when started... Good is normally what we say purchase, we pulled it apart, to Check the tensioner iridium...
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